Comments on: Keeping the Lamps Trim http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/ Think sharp: arts, culture, and ideas Mon, 24 May 2010 14:54:11 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: kyla http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-92 kyla Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:21:51 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-92 Sorry. . .put my response in the wrong place. My answer to your question is under Vlad's comment! Sorry. . .put my response in the wrong place. My answer to your question is under Vlad's comment!

]]> By: kyla http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-91 kyla Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:20:02 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-91 Why does worship have to be about technology? I'm not saying that in order to worship, the atmosphere should be ascetic: no electricity, no indoor plumbing. But on the other hand, why the need for a multi-million dollar sound system and a jumbo tron in order to pay reverence to God? I mean, when it gets to that point, it's not so much worship as a performance. That's when you start hearing about the performer and not the message. It becomes "Pastor so and so was really feelin' it today" or "Sister Choir Solo really tore it up. You could hear/see him/her all the way in the back." The size of the congregation is not a factor in whether or not it has God's support. Does not the Bible say at Matthew 18:20, "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”? For me, I think a smaller congregation is better all the way around. In that way, the mature ones in the congregation can better shepherd the flock. The members of the congregation can actually tell who is new or who is missing and give encouragement accordingly. I had someone ask me once, "do you go to Potter's House, too?" My response was, "if you go there, shouldn't you know?" So in short my perspective is that a large church doesn't equal strong spirituality. That to me is a very fallible line of reasoning. If that were the case, wouldn't the converse be true. Wouldn't that mean that the person sincere of heart who lives someplace where they are isolated does not have blessing? Om addition, I think the individual spirituality of each congregant can better flourish when said congregation is kept to a manageable size--when each member is able to receive the personal attention that's needed. As for financial support of the congregation, we handle ours completely based on voluntary donations and the lights ain't been turned out yet. And there's always enough for growth and new buildings when needed, etc. It's not a status symbol about who's church is the newest, biggest and shiniest with the most bells & whistles. That's not what impresses God. He can read our hearts and can hear us when we talk to him in silence so there's no need to flash and shout. Why does worship have to be about technology? I'm not saying that in order to worship, the atmosphere should be ascetic: no electricity, no indoor plumbing. But on the other hand, why the need for a multi-million dollar sound system and a jumbo tron in order to pay reverence to God? I mean, when it gets to that point, it's not so much worship as a performance. That's when you start hearing about the performer and not the message. It becomes "Pastor so and so was really feelin' it today" or "Sister Choir Solo really tore it up. You could hear/see him/her all the way in the back." The size of the congregation is not a factor in whether or not it has God's support. Does not the Bible say at Matthew 18:20, "For where there are two or three gathered together in my name, there I am in their midst.”? For me, I think a smaller congregation is better all the way around. In that way, the mature ones in the congregation can better shepherd the flock. The members of the congregation can actually tell who is new or who is missing and give encouragement accordingly. I had someone ask me once, "do you go to Potter's House, too?" My response was, "if you go there, shouldn't you know?" So in short my perspective is that a large church doesn't equal strong spirituality. That to me is a very fallible line of reasoning. If that were the case, wouldn't the converse be true. Wouldn't that mean that the person sincere of heart who lives someplace where they are isolated does not have blessing? Om addition, I think the individual spirituality of each congregant can better flourish when said congregation is kept to a manageable size–when each member is able to receive the personal attention that's needed. As for financial support of the congregation, we handle ours completely based on voluntary donations and the lights ain't been turned out yet. And there's always enough for growth and new buildings when needed, etc. It's not a status symbol about who's church is the newest, biggest and shiniest with the most bells & whistles. That's not what impresses God. He can read our hearts and can hear us when we talk to him in silence so there's no need to flash and shout.

]]> By: Vlad http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-89 Vlad Wed, 21 Oct 2009 16:21:00 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-89 I don't think that size and spirituality are the least bit related, nor is current technology part of the mission. The building we call a "church" has little to do with the biblical church (better, "congregation") of believers. How do you maintain it? By keeping the lamps trim. Don't commit the congregation to a burdensome physical edifice in the first place. There's a church in downtown Dallas made up of a bricolage of bricks, because everyone brought what what they could, or what they had left over from their own homes. What a great start. By the way, I would have been a great monk! I don't think that size and spirituality are the least bit related, nor is current technology part of the mission. The building we call a "church" has little to do with the biblical church (better, "congregation") of believers. How do you maintain it? By keeping the lamps trim. Don't commit the congregation to a burdensome physical edifice in the first place. There's a church in downtown Dallas made up of a bricolage of bricks, because everyone brought what what they could, or what they had left over from their own homes. What a great start.

By the way, I would have been a great monk!

]]> By: Ezra http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-86 Ezra Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:01:49 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-86 Don't get me started on paying for the front row. Down here some churches will go so far as to call those people kings and queens. What do you think churches should do to meet today's challenges though? How do you stay current with technology and being accessible without driving up the need for tithes? I have my own perspective, but I'd like to hear yours. With such a focus on churches and the idea that a large church shows a strong spiritual following, how do you maintain that without bringing a truckload of money into the equation? Don't get me started on paying for the front row. Down here some churches will go so far as to call those people kings and queens. What do you think churches should do to meet today's challenges though? How do you stay current with technology and being accessible without driving up the need for tithes? I have my own perspective, but I'd like to hear yours. With such a focus on churches and the idea that a large church shows a strong spiritual following, how do you maintain that without bringing a truckload of money into the equation?

]]> By: kyla http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-85 kyla Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:48:57 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-85 I think mainstream "Christianity" has forgotten one simple directive that Jesus Christ gave at Matthew 10:8, "You received free, give free." For far too many, preaching is a job and a means to gain wealth. There's not very much Christ in Christian. This carries over even into the fact of what is taught and placated and even praised. It's all very Pharisaical. Preachers/ministers or whatever title you want to give them will say just about anything to keep the pews and thus the coffers filled. 2 Timothy 4: 3&4 says, "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories." And isn't that what we see? Politics and religion and commerce being bedfellows? Megachurches? Paying for the front pew? Telling people that whatever lifestyle they live is "okay with God" even when there are scriptures that say the very opposite? Oh no. . . . can’t turn away those with the money. Let's tell 'em what they wanna hear. Lie, smile and pass the collection plate. I think mainstream "Christianity" has forgotten one simple directive that Jesus Christ gave at Matthew 10:8, "You received free, give free." For far too many, preaching is a job and a means to gain wealth. There's not very much Christ in Christian. This carries over even into the fact of what is taught and placated and even praised. It's all very Pharisaical. Preachers/ministers or whatever title you want to give them will say just about anything to keep the pews and thus the coffers filled. 2 Timothy 4: 3&4 says, "For there will be a period of time when they will not put up with the healthful teaching, but, in accord with their own desires, they will accumulate teachers for themselves to have their ears tickled; 4 and they will turn their ears away from the truth, whereas they will be turned aside to false stories." And isn't that what we see? Politics and religion and commerce being bedfellows? Megachurches? Paying for the front pew? Telling people that whatever lifestyle they live is "okay with God" even when there are scriptures that say the very opposite? Oh no. . . . can’t turn away those with the money. Let's tell 'em what they wanna hear. Lie, smile and pass the collection plate.

]]> By: Ezra http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-84 Ezra Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:59:52 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-84 I'm glad you brought up monasticism. I think if I'd been better built for monasticism, or at least that sort of lifestyle, then full-time ministry might've been an option for me. I think it would send a great message to be able to full-time minister and live on the bare minimum, and being able to say the joy of the ministry fulfills in a way that using tithes for personally enjoyed chattels never could. Plus being open about church finances, particularly disclosing what is spent on your living costs, would take away from some of the critiques often levelled by people on the outside looking in. I saw a news item on the general coordinating the military effort in Afghanistan, and he had a small, spartan room. "What else do you need? He said." Sent a message about a man dedicated to his mission. I'm glad you brought up monasticism. I think if I'd been better built for monasticism, or at least that sort of lifestyle, then full-time ministry might've been an option for me. I think it would send a great message to be able to full-time minister and live on the bare minimum, and being able to say the joy of the ministry fulfills in a way that using tithes for personally enjoyed chattels never could. Plus being open about church finances, particularly disclosing what is spent on your living costs, would take away from some of the critiques often levelled by people on the outside looking in. I saw a news item on the general coordinating the military effort in Afghanistan, and he had a small, spartan room.

"What else do you need? He said."

Sent a message about a man dedicated to his mission.

]]> By: Vlad http://concreteacademic.com/2009/10/keeping-the-lamps-trim/comment-page-1/#comment-83 Vlad Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:56:22 +0000 http://concreteacademic.com/?p=367#comment-83 The NT is unambiguous on the subject, but there is some trouble dealing with the Hebrew Bible. Material and spiritual prosperity are so often bound up with each other. But even ignoring the tel-evangelical bling, you're right that mainstream Christianity is no barrier to the consumerism/materialism of the culture (Christmas is coming up). It would be interesting to explore this further, including a discussion of monasticism. The NT is unambiguous on the subject, but there is some trouble dealing with the Hebrew Bible. Material and spiritual prosperity are so often bound up with each other. But even ignoring the tel-evangelical bling, you're right that mainstream Christianity is no barrier to the consumerism/materialism of the culture (Christmas is coming up). It would be interesting to explore this further, including a discussion of monasticism.

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